This blog is designed for students in Ms. Kimpson's English IV class. Students will be able to express their thoughts and comment on the thoughts of others. Please remember to respect the opinions of others. No profanity is allowed!!
Okay, so first off, lets start with this question...
Why do you think that they burned Plum? And to add to that question, do you think that burning has a significance in the book, i.e; the burning of Plum and the way that Sula's mother died...
Eva said that Plum was too dependent on others, like a baby. Therefore, she did not want him to live the rest of his life not being able to care for himself so, i guess Eva decided to take care of the problem before it got out of hand.
Yea I get what you mean. But, of course its odd and coincidental knowing that Hannah, Sula's mother, dies from fire as well, so there is some reason behind the "fire". Good question...i will think on it
Burning Plum could be Eva's way of giving people what they want to see and gossip about. Since all the deaths in the story are watched as if it where a show, i.e Chicken Little, Hannah, the people marching with shadrack. The death of Plum and Hannah probally would not have phased the people in Medallion and the severity of being burned by fire is used to emphasize the characteristics of the people's overall attitude and selfishness toward each other.
I think she burned Plum because for one its ind of her motherly way of showing that she cares. She probably could not handle the fact that his addiction was tearing him apart and, as his mother felt the need to put him out of his misery. It shows a sense of selfishness mainly because she results to ending his life instead of saving him by thinking of other ways to help him through his situation.
QUESTION: How does Hannah's paradoxical remark towards loving Sula but not liking her alter Sula's thoughts about love as a whole? Do you think it contributes to Sula's characteristics?
Its pretty obvious throughout the novel that Sula's family is not the typical portrayal of a conventionalized family, that many other households, such as Nel's, attempt to live up to. Considering the fact that Sula's family is rather a group of unethical and loose scondrals, that behave in reckless manners, I believe that Eva's lack of responsibility steams from her surroundings and thus causes her to make wrong decisions. Which in turn, alters her sense of reasoning and allows her to believe that the best way to solve any problem is to simply just get rid of it. However, even as Eva took the wrong steps towards relieving Plum from his unpleasing lifestyle,I believe she did it out of love for her son."Plum, to whom she hoped to bequeath everything,floated in a constant swaddle of love and affection" (Morrison 45). She did not want to see him suffer through addiction, and rather she felt it was better for him to live in misery for a moment than to carry on the rest of his life in misery.This is why, the minute before she burns him, he envision a baptism or renewal as Eva states the "everything will be alright"(Morrison 47).
Response to Ariel: Yeah. I think that Sula's whole personality and sense of reasoning is a direct result of what she experiences and observes in her household as a child. Sula seems to be distant from truly loving and being committed to any man, due to the fact that Eva was abandoned by her own husband. Therefore sula fails to believe in marriage, and thus proceeds to be enganged with different men, such as Jude, who later abandons Nel. So just as situation such as that affect her life, I believe that the uncertain love she recieves from Hannah, causes her to be weary of offering her love to anyone else.
I see that both Nel and Sula knew of what their consequences woud have been for Chicken Little's death even though it was an accident. But, if Chicken Little were black, do you think that the girls would have spoken up about Chicken Little drowning?
I still dont believe they would have. They were young and the whole incident came as a shock to them..they were in a state of panic at the time, and I dont believe anyone at their age would be strong enough to carry the burden of being responsible for the death of someones child, whether white or balck.
Honestly I was trying to figure out why Eva burns Plum because I didnt see the significance in burning a child. Was it to put him out of his misery and if so what misery was he in besides his struggle to use the bath room. I know that Sula's mom Hannah ends up cathcing fire too but like why would that be a significance and how does that relate to the novel. I feel as though Sula gets her ugly ways from Hannah in which she gets her ways from Eva. All of them did something to hurt other people and Sula derserves to be at the Bottom. She was wrong for taking Nel's man like a little trick and truthfully this all coming back around on both of them for killing that boy chicken little. I'm just done with this book
The remark that Sula overhears her mother saying completly throws her off track because her feelings toward her mother are not parallel to her mother's feelings toward her. After that she realizes that she cannot depend on anyone if she cannot depend on her mother. And she developes selfish qualities which ultimately makes her the person she is. So this incident not only contributes to Sula's characterstics, it developes them.
QUESTION: AFTER READING THE 5TH PARAGRAPH ON PAGE 10 STARTING WITH SHADRACK SOTOD AT HOW DOES THIS RELATE TO THE TYPE OF PERSON HE IS FROM THE BEGINNING TO THE END OF THE NOVEL
yeah, I can see what you're sayin Ariel. Also another part of the book that intrigued me was when Hannah asked Eva if she loved them and if she ever played with them. Do you think that this tied in with her saying that she loved Sula but didnt like her. Also, why do you think that she didn't like Sula at such a young age?
QUESTION: THE LAST PARAGRAPH ON PAGE 66 STARTING WITH NEL AND SULA STOOD, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THEIR GRIEF AND MOURNING BEHIND CHICKE LITTLE'S DEATH IS GINUWINE? THE PARAGRAPH ASKS A QUESTION ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BUTTERFLIES IN THE WINTER. WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK THEY MEANT BY THIS?
QUESTION: ON PAGE 78 THE LAST PARAGRAPH ENDS IN A TWIST WHICH RELATES TO YOOUR QUESTION ARIEL AND YOUR REPSONSE BETH. WHY DOES EVA FEEL THAT SULA IS MORE INTERESTED IN HER MOTHER'S BURNING VS AS BEING PARALYZED? COULD SHE HAVE BEEN BOTH? OR DO YOU THINK THE "LOVE" BETWEEN HER AND HANNAH WAS NOT GINUWINE TO BEGIN WITH?
Sula's return to the Bottom made people improve their lifestyles.. Teapot's mother took better care of him, once Sula was accused of pushing him down the stairs and the women took better care of their husbands, out of fear that Sula might snatch them away. so i feel like the people in Medallion just need something to talk about, a reason to change and Sula gave them what they wanted, along with her own actions included in.
i think that Sula was both interested and frozen with shock at the site of her mother burning. if it were me i would have tried to help but with Sula being the type of person that is unpredictable and thrives on adventure, i can see how she could have been both
I don't know Shatriece...maybe she resented the fact that Hannah didn't like her. The love was genuine because she did provide for her. I think a mother is going to have love for her child regardless.
I feel everything thing is finally fully exposed when Sula returns to the Bottom. All honest, held in emotions come out as Eva and Sula go back and forth between who is truly to blame for all their problems. As Eva proceeds to reject Sula for not settling down and getting married and also labels her as a bad daughter, sula denounces eva right back for always trying to find a easy way out of hardship. Such as killing plum and cutting off her leg for insurance. But I do not feel people in the Bottom accepted Sula after she unveils her true self,but rather perceieve her to be "evil". Additionally, although Sula does have an affair with Jude, I think her and Nel are finally abel to determine the purpose of their friendship, as they grow to learn from each other's accomplishment and mistakes within their own lives. It is unfortunate, however, that Sula is disowned by all in the Bottom even as she dies.
I believe that Eva burns Plum's body in order to free him from his earthly burdens and sufferings. As his mother she feels obligated to make decisions that she believes is best for her children. Her overbearing love for her son leads to her feelings of protection and selfishness. Pertaining to the reoccurrence of burning throughout the novel, I think author Toni Morrison uses it to reveal the true aspects of love that is sometimes concealed or overlooked. It serves as a form of freedom and an end to one's misery on earth.
Perhaps burning is also incorporated to illustrate our fascination versus fear of death. Like Ariel R. mentioned, people would watch attenatively as someone else would die. Why exactly does death pique the characters' interests, I am not sure.
I most edfinately believe that Sula's characteristics and mentality is developed from the ambiance in their particular society. She never recieves that womanly/motherly love due to her family's unestablished and somewhat corrupt beliefs and principles. Sula, just like any growing child, inevitably uses her experiences (both the ones that she physically encounters and the ones that the indivduals around her face)as a guide of how she should be. Because Sula did not have a stagnant father figure in her life, she seeks constant male attention from several guys and resists commimment because to her it represents confinement to a lifestyle that more that likely will end in unhappiness, submission, and loneliness. Her indifferent attitude towards many things is percived by the community as a characteristic of evil, however Sula is only revealing the other side that exist in most people, the side we try to refrain from seeing or resiting.
wait...i thought that Chicken Little is black because it says how the powerful white individuals direguard the death of black children. Well anyways to answer Ariel W.'s question, I don't think Sula nor Nel intended to tell the truth about the accident due to their acceptance and somewhat arousal of the tragedy. Feelings of guilt, however, (especially in Nel) begins to dominate her mind, as she realizes that although Sula phyiscally kills Chicken Little, Nel allows it to happen by acting as a spectator and not seeking help when he drowns.
I pretty much agree with Chioma about the effects on the community as Sula returns to the Bottom. I do want to add that Sula's return served as wake up call by causing the people to become more appreciative and cautious of their possessions. The people did strive to improve their lifestyle once Sula return, however, her death shows that their motives for improving were out of selfishness and fear because it is after her death weh the community slowly but surely dissenegrates and loses its unification. They did not want to improve for their own personal benefit or self-gain. This can be used to illustrate how people can develop the very qualities that they are running from. Everyone percieves Sula as an evil "witch" whose distant and indifferent attitude leads to destruction and corruption, however, by the end of the novel, the people in the community themsleves become distant and concerned about their individual households which "destroys" the Bottom.
Okay, so first off, lets start with this question...
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think that they burned Plum? And to add to that question, do you think that burning has a significance in the book, i.e; the burning of Plum and the way that Sula's mother died...
Eva said that Plum was too dependent on others, like a baby. Therefore, she did not want him to live the rest of his life not being able to care for himself so, i guess Eva decided to take care of the problem before it got out of hand.
ReplyDeleteBut out of all things, burning him? I think thats what I mean more, than the actual reason, since they did state that in the book.
ReplyDeleteYea I get what you mean. But, of course its odd and coincidental knowing that Hannah, Sula's mother, dies from fire as well, so there is some reason behind the "fire". Good question...i will think on it
ReplyDeleteBurning Plum could be Eva's way of giving people what they want to see and gossip about. Since all the deaths in the story are watched as if it where a show, i.e Chicken Little, Hannah, the people marching with shadrack. The death of Plum and Hannah probally would not have phased the people in Medallion and the severity of being burned by fire is used to emphasize the characteristics of the people's overall attitude and selfishness toward each other.
ReplyDeleteI think she burned Plum because for one its ind of her motherly way of showing that she cares. She probably could not handle the fact that his addiction was tearing him apart and, as his mother felt the need to put him out of his misery. It shows a sense of selfishness mainly because she results to ending his life instead of saving him by thinking of other ways to help him through his situation.
ReplyDeleteQUESTION: How does Hannah's paradoxical remark towards loving Sula but not liking her alter Sula's thoughts about love as a whole? Do you think it contributes to Sula's characteristics?
ReplyDeleteIts pretty obvious throughout the novel that Sula's family is not the typical portrayal of a conventionalized family, that many other households, such as Nel's, attempt to live up to. Considering the fact that Sula's family is rather a group of unethical and loose scondrals, that behave in reckless manners, I believe that Eva's lack of responsibility steams from her surroundings and thus causes her to make wrong decisions. Which in turn, alters her sense of reasoning and allows her to believe that the best way to solve any problem is to simply just get rid of it. However, even as Eva took the wrong steps towards relieving Plum from his unpleasing lifestyle,I believe she did it out of love for her son."Plum, to whom she hoped to bequeath everything,floated in a constant swaddle of love and affection" (Morrison 45). She did not want to see him suffer through addiction, and rather she felt it was better for him to live in misery for a moment than to carry on the rest of his life in misery.This is why, the minute before she burns him, he envision a baptism or renewal as Eva states the "everything will be alright"(Morrison 47).
ReplyDeleteResponse to Ariel: Yeah. I think that Sula's whole personality and sense of reasoning is a direct result of what she experiences and observes in her household as a child. Sula seems to be distant from truly loving and being committed to any man, due to the fact that Eva was abandoned by her own husband. Therefore sula fails to believe in marriage, and thus proceeds to be enganged with different men, such as Jude, who later abandons Nel. So just as situation such as that affect her life, I believe that the uncertain love she recieves from Hannah, causes her to be weary of offering her love to anyone else.
ReplyDeleteI see that both Nel and Sula knew of what their consequences woud have been for Chicken Little's death even though it was an accident. But, if Chicken Little were black, do you think that the girls would have spoken up about Chicken Little drowning?
ReplyDeleteI still dont believe they would have. They were young and the whole incident came as a shock to them..they were in a state of panic at the time, and I dont believe anyone at their age would be strong enough to carry the burden of being responsible for the death of someones child, whether white or balck.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Chioma about them not speaking up. What about Sula's return to the bottom? How do you guys feel about that?
ReplyDeleteHonestly I was trying to figure out why Eva burns Plum because I didnt see the significance in burning a child. Was it to put him out of his misery and if so what misery was he in besides his struggle to use the bath room. I know that Sula's mom Hannah ends up cathcing fire too but like why would that be a significance and how does that relate to the novel. I feel as though Sula gets her ugly ways from Hannah in which she gets her ways from Eva. All of them did something to hurt other people and Sula derserves to be at the Bottom. She was wrong for taking Nel's man like a little trick and truthfully this all coming back around on both of them for killing that boy chicken little. I'm just done with this book
ReplyDeleteThe remark that Sula overhears her mother saying completly throws her off track because her feelings toward her mother are not parallel to her mother's feelings toward her. After that she realizes that she cannot depend on anyone if she cannot depend on her mother. And she developes selfish qualities which ultimately makes her the person she is. So this incident not only contributes to Sula's characterstics, it developes them.
ReplyDeleteQUESTION: AFTER READING THE 5TH PARAGRAPH ON PAGE 10 STARTING WITH SHADRACK SOTOD AT HOW DOES THIS RELATE TO THE TYPE OF PERSON HE IS FROM THE BEGINNING TO THE END OF THE NOVEL
ReplyDeleteyeah, I can see what you're sayin Ariel. Also another part of the book that intrigued me was when Hannah asked Eva if she loved them and if she ever played with them. Do you think that this tied in with her saying that she loved Sula but didnt like her. Also, why do you think that she didn't like Sula at such a young age?
ReplyDeleteQUESTION: THE LAST PARAGRAPH ON PAGE 66 STARTING WITH NEL AND SULA STOOD, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THEIR GRIEF AND MOURNING BEHIND CHICKE LITTLE'S DEATH IS GINUWINE? THE PARAGRAPH ASKS A QUESTION ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BUTTERFLIES IN THE WINTER. WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK THEY MEANT BY THIS?
ReplyDeleteQUESTION: ON PAGE 78 THE LAST PARAGRAPH ENDS IN A TWIST WHICH RELATES TO YOOUR QUESTION ARIEL AND YOUR REPSONSE BETH. WHY DOES EVA FEEL THAT SULA IS MORE INTERESTED IN HER MOTHER'S BURNING VS AS BEING PARALYZED? COULD SHE HAVE BEEN BOTH? OR DO YOU THINK THE "LOVE" BETWEEN HER AND HANNAH WAS NOT GINUWINE TO BEGIN WITH?
ReplyDeleteSula's return to the Bottom made people improve their lifestyles.. Teapot's mother took better care of him, once Sula was accused of pushing him down the stairs and the women took better care of their husbands, out of fear that Sula might snatch them away. so i feel like the people in Medallion just need something to talk about, a reason to change and Sula gave them what they wanted, along with her own actions included in.
ReplyDeletep.s Shatriece...Hilarious lol
i think that Sula was both interested and frozen with shock at the site of her mother burning. if it were me i would have tried to help but with Sula being the type of person that is unpredictable and thrives on adventure, i can see how she could have been both
ReplyDeleteI don't know Shatriece...maybe she resented the fact that Hannah didn't like her. The love was genuine because she did provide for her. I think a mother is going to have love for her child regardless.
ReplyDeleteI feel everything thing is finally fully exposed when Sula returns to the Bottom. All honest, held in emotions come out as Eva and Sula go back and forth between who is truly to blame for all their problems. As Eva proceeds to reject Sula for not settling down and getting married and also labels her as a bad daughter, sula denounces eva right back for always trying to find a easy way out of hardship. Such as killing plum and cutting off her leg for insurance. But I do not feel people in the Bottom accepted Sula after she unveils her true self,but rather perceieve her to be "evil". Additionally, although Sula does have an affair with Jude, I think her and Nel are finally abel to determine the purpose of their friendship, as they grow to learn from each other's accomplishment and mistakes within their own lives. It is unfortunate, however, that Sula is disowned by all in the Bottom even as she dies.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Eva burns Plum's body in order to free him from his earthly burdens and sufferings. As his mother she feels obligated to make decisions that she believes is best for her children. Her overbearing love for her son leads to her feelings of protection and selfishness. Pertaining to the reoccurrence of burning throughout the novel, I think author Toni Morrison uses it to reveal the true aspects of love that is sometimes concealed or overlooked. It serves as a form of freedom and an end to one's misery on earth.
ReplyDeletePerhaps burning is also incorporated to illustrate our fascination versus fear of death. Like Ariel R. mentioned, people would watch attenatively as someone else would die. Why exactly does death pique the characters' interests, I am not sure.
ReplyDeleteI most edfinately believe that Sula's characteristics and mentality is developed from the ambiance in their particular society. She never recieves that womanly/motherly love due to her family's unestablished and somewhat corrupt beliefs and principles. Sula, just like any growing child, inevitably uses her experiences (both the ones that she physically encounters and the ones that the indivduals around her face)as a guide of how she should be. Because Sula did not have a stagnant father figure in her life, she seeks constant male attention from several guys and resists commimment because to her it represents confinement to a lifestyle that more that likely will end in unhappiness, submission, and loneliness. Her indifferent attitude towards many things is percived by the community as a characteristic of evil, however Sula is only revealing the other side that exist in most people, the side we try to refrain from seeing or resiting.
ReplyDeletewait...i thought that Chicken Little is black because it says how the powerful white individuals direguard the death of black children. Well anyways to answer Ariel W.'s question, I don't think Sula nor Nel intended to tell the truth about the accident due to their acceptance and somewhat arousal of the tragedy. Feelings of guilt, however, (especially in Nel) begins to dominate her mind, as she realizes that although Sula phyiscally kills Chicken Little, Nel allows it to happen by acting as a spectator and not seeking help when he drowns.
ReplyDeleteI pretty much agree with Chioma about the effects on the community as Sula returns to the Bottom. I do want to add that Sula's return served as wake up call by causing the people to become more appreciative and cautious of their possessions. The people did strive to improve their lifestyle once Sula return, however, her death shows that their motives for improving were out of selfishness and fear because it is after her death weh the community slowly but surely dissenegrates and loses its unification. They did not want to improve for their own personal benefit or self-gain. This can be used to illustrate how people can develop the very qualities that they are running from. Everyone percieves Sula as an evil "witch" whose distant and indifferent attitude leads to destruction and corruption, however, by the end of the novel, the people in the community themsleves become distant and concerned about their individual households which "destroys" the Bottom.
ReplyDelete